43. Meet Wish Upon A Planner

I’m joined this week by the amazing Ali Wigle, founder of Wish Upon a Planner and Disney strategist extraordinaire. Ali has over seven years of experience navigating Disney World and providing visitors with invaluable information and strategies and she’s sharing some of her favorites with you! Tune in to discover her insider tips for navigating the parks, beating the lines, and making the most of your Disney vacation.

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This episode was produced by The Podcast Teacher.

Transcript

Michele:

Hello, my friends. Welcome to another episode of Let Me Adjust My Ears. I am so excited, you guys. We have wish upon a planner, Ali, with us. And Ali just found out because we are just meeting for the 1st time in real time that I, like, have followed her since what I thought was the beginning of the time, but she's been around a lot longer than I have. So, Ali, please introduce yourself to everyone and tell us what Wish Upon A Planner is.

Ali:

Yeah. I'm so glad I'm here. This is a blast. I love podcasting, so thank you for asking me. Especially in the middle of winter, like, it's just nice to connect with somebody like this. But, yeah, I'm Ali. I started Wishbone Planner. Like I just told you right before we hopped on, I actually started in 2017.

Ali:

So we're going on year 7, which is crazy. We had what I think were the 1st, like, digital guides for Disney World that focus on, like, beating the lines and strategy. There's other things that have been around a little longer and stuff, but there's software. There's guides. There's blogs. But it was mostly blogs and then some softwares. And I guess the first thing we did was the FastPass guide.

Michele:

I'm sorry. A FastPass guide? Like, what what is a FastPass?

Ali:

What's the FastPass? RIP.

Michele:

I long for the days of Fast Pass.

Ali:

You and me both. I know. I don't think there's anybody that loves Genie, and the people that are like, oh my god. I love Genie so much. I'm like, that's nice. You're privileged.

Michele:

Yeah. If you are out there and you're sitting there going, oh, well, I like Jeanie, then you need to hit me up in my DMs so that I can tell Ali because no.

Ali:

I know. Like, of course, you could become an expert at it. Right? And you save the money or you splurge. I mean, the one thing I don't like when people they think everyone's financial situation is theirs, especially if they're in a privileged situation. So, like, first off, not everybody can use something like this. That's a big expense for a lot of people. And then even if you know how to use it or you're an expert, the user interface and the system is bad. Like, it's not good.

Ali:

So, yeah, I'm an expert. Can I afford it most days? Sure. But for me to go and pretend that that's gonna work for everybody is just silly. We'll say silly. So, anyways, blah blah blah. Jeannie rants. We could do this all day.

Michele:

Yeah. And for my listeners, I have to tell you that everything I know about, Genie started with Ally's Genie Plus guidebook that you can buy, and we'll go over all that later. But first, Ellie, where are you located?

Ali:

Right now, I'm in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

Michele:

So how often do you get to the East Coast parks primarily? Because I know you do something for the West Coast parks as well.

Ali:

Yeah. A little bit.

Michele:

I feel like you're there every day.

Ali:

Yeah. Definitely not. I think a lot of people think that. No. I definitely don't live in Florida. And then for a few years, we lived in North Carolina, so I was there a lot, and that was right after COVID. And during 2020 and 2021, I think I was at the parks, like, every 4 weeks because things were changing that much. I didn't have any 1 local like I do now.

Ali:

Like, now I have a team. I have locals there. I have people there. So it's not me that's going all the time, and it's just my information. Now I'm probably going once every, I would say, 6 to 10 weeks. It really depends. Sometimes I find myself and it's like, oh, it's 6 weeks later, and then sometimes it's been, like, 3 months. I have locals in Orlando.

Ali:

I have a couple girls that are awesome, and they do stuff for me. Right? So the business and everything's still always in the parks and doing stuff, optimizing, blah blah blah. But me, personally, I definitely backed off past few years.

Michele:

So 1 question that I told you I was really curious to get your opinion on is we just last week got park hopping back to pre COVID normalcy. How does that change your strategy now, or does it?

Ali:

Yeah. So the short answer is it really doesn't. Crowd patterns tend to fall. It's not gonna change things, really. I could get into, like, really boring details on, like, potential, but really, like, nothing changes because there's times when crowds increase throughout the day and it doesn't matter whether it's hopping or not. Basically, the law of averages is gonna come into play too. Right? Just because park hopping is back doesn't mean there's suddenly gonna be, like, 4 times as many people at Epcot than there would be Magic Kingdom. It doesn't do that much.

Ali:

That's the short answer.

Michele:

So what do you think is a good guide? Before COVID, I used to always recommend my clients to get park hoppers and that's because I was a park hopper and that's how I knew how to do the parks. Then COVID came along, no more park hopping. And then when it came back, I was like, it's not worth it to my clients to get it. You can't do it until after 2. It takes forever to get from 1 park to the other park. I didn't think it was a good use of their money. Now park hopping is back full time and I'm like torn because I found it was easier to do the parks when there wasn't park hopping and you knew where you were going on each day and what to do. So what do you use as kind of a determining factor? I get to park hop, I have an annual pass, so what typical honeymoon couple? Because, you know, I don't do pint sized entourage, so no typical family of 4, but, like, people who've got some get up and go.

Ali:

Yeah. So for me, park croppers have always been, like, for people who are, a, Disney pros, because usually when you love Disney, you're frequent at Disney, you wanna go to more than 1 park a day. If you're a Genie plus expert, you might wanna be, like, getting lightning lanes for another park at night, go in there, use all your lightning lanes, get out. You might wanna go to the Epcot festivals and jump in for food. And knowing what you're doing definitely helps. Park hopping isn't confusing in that sense. Right? When people say transportation and getting around is a factor, like, it's still a factor. It doesn't matter if there's park hopping at 2 or 7.

Ali:

You still have to pop to the park. So, like, that isn't a variable that's changed, if that makes sense. But I like it for adults. I like it for people who aren't first timers and for people that want that flexibility. Generally, I say no to park hoppers for people with mobility issues because then you're not having to go in and out of parks all day. 1st timers, it's more fun to be at 1 park all day, and it's easier to follow some kind of itinerary. Like, if you're following an expert itinerary, which obviously college should be. But if you're following some all day itinerary, that's much easier to follow and get everything done than trying to go to more than 1 park in one day.

Ali:

You know? So I'm generally, like, adults, Disney pros, or frequent Disney visitors, and then people that just want that flexibility and know they're gonna wanna do something.

Michele:

My people, adults, Disney pros.

Ali:

Totally.

Michele:

Okay. Well, that's good for me to know to recommend it for my pros.

Ali:

Yeah. I would say too, like, if you have an annual pass or you're pro or whatever, don't park off and see how it is because I will say, like, I've taken my mom this year. I've taken my husband this year. I've taken a couple of friends. And I think 2 thirds of the trips that I just mentioned, I didn't have them get a park hopper, which is kinda crazy because usually I would, but I didn't wanna spend the money, even if it's just a little extra. Like, that adds up, especially when you're doing what I do.

Michele:

Yeah. When you're adding Genie plus on top of the

Ali:

money. It's so easy to do that. And it's like, great inflation and all these things suck, and everybody feels the burn, right, like most of us. So it's like, where can we cut things? And I also wanted to focus on 1 park at a time. And I will say it was really fun. Spending a full day at Hollywood Studios or a full day at Animal Kingdom, it is really relaxing compared to that. I'm gonna go to this park, do my rides, get the food, hop, do something else. Your day just ends up being a lot more, like, type b and chill.

Ali:

It's just a nice little respite when you're used to being like, go, go, go.

Michele:

Yeah. I agree. It is nice. Absolutely.

Ali:

Yeah. So it's fun to do that. Like, just focus on 1 park every once in a while, especially if you're a pro. Just try it. See how you feel.

Michele:

So I read your newsletter, like, every week. And, again, I told people at the end that just because I've mentioned it now, where do people sign up for your e newsletter? We will put this in the show notes. Don't scream at me. Don't scream at your radio right now, but go ahead, Ally, tell us so that they can just feel at ease as they're listening to this.

Ali:

Yes. List letter, which is also on its 3rd year. It just had its 3rd birthday. I think we're almost 150 editions now. I know. It's nice when you have consistency, right? It's so hard to be consistent. And some of these things, I'm I'm like, wow. I'm so consistent.

Michele:

This is incredible. Oh, she's just a badass.

Ali:

No. I will say I've had problems with consistency in my life, but now, like, Wish Upon A Planner has made so many things consistent. I'm like, look at this. I've been doing the same thing every week for 3 years. But, yeah, on this letter, you can just go to our website, like wish mom planner.com, and there's a big subscribe button. You can't miss it.

Michele:

So I read it every week, and it always has some really cool fun tips. And right now, Festival of the Arts just started. You have boots on the ground, what's the one thing that when I go next week, I absolutely have to aside from the Figment Imagination popcorn buckets, which I actually don't even know if I'm gonna get because if I start collecting 1 more thing, like, I'll be thrown out of my house. What's the one thing that is a must do for festival of the arts?

Ali:

Oh, I think my go to for the past few years has been the chorizo empanada. I'm, like, blanking right now. Plus, Festival of the Arts is actually, like, my least, probably, favorite festival.

Michele:

Oh, well okay. So wait. We have to take that detour then. Name your festivals in order.

Ali:

Probably food and wine. I think it gets, like, a lot of hate because, like, yeah, it's crowded, and I think people wanna make themselves stand out sometimes in, like, the content world. So they're like, this is my favorite. I can't like the big one. And I'm like, well, we can, though. I like Food and Wine. I love Food and Wine. It's got more selections than anything else, and it goes on forever.

Ali:

The concerts are amazing. Boyzeman, Hanson. Come on. There's nothing to, like, hate about food and wine. Yes. Food and wine on a Saturday, for sure, can be a little you know? But I don't know. I just love food and wine. I like Flower and Garden.

Ali:

That's probably my 2nd favorite because who doesn't love topiaries? The Winnie the Pooh in the UK.

Michele:

Like, I mean I think that's my favorite.

Ali:

Yeah. I think a lot of people say Festival of the Arts, and I'm like, you sure you didn't mean Flower and Garden? Yeah. I don't find Festival of the Arts food that exciting either. I'm a very adventurous eater. I have, like, my little weird picky things. Like, I don't like cucumbers. I don't like pickles. But in general, if food's done well, I eat anything.

Ali:

And I would say I like the palate, but that's one of the art. Some things are a little too kitschy for me. I don't need a food that you can, like, also, I don't know, do things with.

Michele:

Well, that's how I felt about the pickle milk shake, and that was at food and wine. So

Ali:

Yeah. I

Michele:

mean, that's what the arts has to be better. I will say I've never dived really deeply into festival art. It's like I've never actually done the paints on the walls or anything. That'll be a first, and I am gonna spend all day there. I'm not going to park up. So I really just wanna do a deep dive.

Ali:

Nice. That's fun too, spending all day doing a festival. Just watch out if you drink.

Michele:

You have to eat with the drink.

Ali:

Right? I know. I'm a lightweight, so I have to be, like, super careful.

Michele:

I'm a very lightweight.

Ali:

Yeah. And I think when I'm at Epcot, my brain's like, you're not a lightweight. You can have another margarita within 1 hour.

Michele:

And with the sun, I just drinking at Epcot and I that went out with my twenties pretty much. So how did you get your start and come up with this idea, which as you said, started in 2017. It was really ahead of its time. How did this all happen? And I have to say your name being Ali, I'm currently reading the autobiography of Ali Webb of Blow Drybar, you know, the blowout place.

Ali:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Michele:

So I'm like, it's the same, like, you birth to this great business idea.

Ali:

Yeah. That's a good question. And I get this, and I'm like, how do I answer this? Because it's like there's so much evolution and it's like even like I forget, I've pivoted so many times to make it. People ask me, they're like, well, how do I start a business or how to do this or a website? I'm like, as long as you have at least a few people interested, it means a lot of people will be interested in your solution or whatever it is. And then from there, you have to just do it long enough and pivot enough. And if you do that, you'll be successful. You'll be successful at anything if you keep pivoting and you stay with it. I don't think a lot of people wanna stay with things because it's hard.

Ali:

It's hard to do the same thing over and over and over again. So I was like, really, it's evolved. I feel like I started in 2017, but I feel like even with COVID thrown in there, it just got its footing again in, like, 2022. But, yeah, I just I've always been, like, a Disney pro. And I'm not shy to say that because I've been good at it since I was little. I used to make spreadsheets when I was, like, 12 before my dad and I would go on vacation for the paper Fast Pass to, like, see the optimal ways to do that. So it's been a really long time I've been doing this, and I remember I'd be on, like, Excel and on my, like, gateway or my Dell, whatever computer it was then. And so I've just been doing that, and then I did it for my trips and then other people's trips.

Ali:

And, really, I wanted to leave my nursing career. That was a big thing. I was gonna leave nursing. It basically came down to, am I gonna go to medical school finally, or am I gonna start a business? And I was like, I'm gonna start a business because medical school sounds effing horrible, and, like, it might not be a good decision long term.

Michele:

It sounds long. It sounds arduous is what it sounds like. Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah. And I'm not a good sleeper. Too much stress. Like, no. No. Thank you. Now I'm like, oh my god. Like, no.

Ali:

It wouldn't have happened. So I made a website, and then I was like, well, maybe I should be a travel agent. So I signed up and I did that for, like, 3 months, and I was like, I don't like this. This doesn't make sense for my personality. And I was like, I'm just gonna write. I like writing about it. And then I was a Fastpass whiz, and my sister was like, this is what you need to write about. I remember it.

Ali:

We were, like, going on Peter Pan's life for, like, the 4th time in a row because I just kept getting pass passes.

Michele:

Nice.

Ali:

She was like, this is what you need to write about. And I was like, And I was like, I could write about this. I make, like, a little mini guide. And then my husband was like, dude, you need to, like, go all in on this. You need to hire, like, a marketer or somebody that knows business because I didn't. I was a nurse in geriatrics at the time. So I hired a couple business coaches, and it just evolved from there. They knew what they were doing.

Ali:

Shout out to Alibert and then Julie. And, yeah, I don't know, just evolved. That was a long winded answer.

Michele:

No. That was great. When I went to launch and I also have another revenue stream where I teach travel advisers about website and SEO and content.

Ali:

Yeah. Someone needs to do that.

Michele:

Yes. No offense to all of you who are listening. Who is, you know, the grand wizard coach of the digital marketplace. And that I kind of found you while I was going through that course, and I was like, she literally is going through the funnel exactly as it's taught. And I was so impressed, And it totally sucked me in the way it's supposed to.

Ali:

Yeah. That's cool. I mean, I, of course, know who Amy is. I don't follow her stuff, and I've never been her stuff. You're not the 1st person to say that either, though, which is funny. But Julie Stoyan, have you ever heard of her? Mm-mm. So she now goes by her maiden named Julie Chanel, but she is my business coach. She's with Digital Insiders.

Ali:

She's awesome, and I've been with her for years. And she's taught me almost everything I know. I self taught a lot of stuff, but it's definitely nice to, like, have someone on your side because digital marketing is nuts. And it is not my natural skill set. I am not a promoter person. I am super introverted when it comes to the Internet.

Michele:

You guys can't see me because we're definitely not videoing it, and Ali and I are both, like, in our workout gear. But my jaw just hit the floor when she said that because, like, everything you put out is awesome. You put out great content.

Ali:

That's sweet. Yeah. I try like, it's very easy when I'm doing stuff like this letter or writing blogs or, like, getting to send those random emails or, like, UntangleTuesday. But as far as the marketing and the advertisements and the promos and stuff, I'm like, oh, this is exhausting. But, again, practice. Right? I've learned a lot over the years. So some parts of marketing I find interesting, but a lot of things, I'm just like, yeah. This is dumb.

Ali:

Can I do something else?

Michele:

Okay. We have to go back to Disney now. That was our squirrel ride tour. That that was very interesting. So we talked a little bit about the festivals, but let's talk about parks. What's your favorite park?

Ali:

Oh, okay. So, again, people give answers that are, like, biased or answers that have evolved. So my favorite park is Magic Kingdom. However, now that I've been running a Disney business for 7 years, about 3 years in, my favorite part changed to Epcot. But I think if I wasn't running this business, my favorite part would still be Magic

Michele:

No. I think that's a difference in a I mean, I know it's only been 3 years. But

Ali:

You think so?

Michele:

No. I mean, I say this knowing that everyone who listens to this is all about the adult experience at Disney and that that is typically Epcot. But Epcot is only my 2nd favorite part. What's your first? My first is Disney's. I was about to say the Disney MGM Studios theme park because I helped open that park. So it will always be my favorite. But also now it has the most attractions that I wanna go on.

Ali:

For sure. Yeah. So wait. So you were a cast member?

Michele:

I was cast member. Yeah.

Ali:

What'd you do? Well, I held to open

Michele:

a theme park, and let me tell you that this year, 2024 in May, that park will turn 35 years old. So it's been a minute. And then that's what I did on the college program. And when I finished the college program, I went back to school back then. You did not do the college program, like, four times and then suddenly you were a full time cast member, like

Ali:

Right.

Michele:

Didn't work that way. But I did know that I wanted to come back as a full time cast member, and so I kept working on vacations and stuff. And so I would go back to the studios and I helped open a new attraction, and it was just very special. The studios has a very, very special place in my heart.

Ali:

That's awesome.

Michele:

But then I moved on when I came back after graduation from school, I worked in resorts because think back to that time period, animal kingdom was nowhere even in the plans. Yeah. All the growth was in resorts. And so I thought that was the quickest way to get ahead and move up the corporate ladder, which is what I thought I wanted to do. And after 3 years, I tell people you can only be a cast member for so long because you can't treat your body like that for much longer. Like, it's a hard life. It really is.

Ali:

Yeah, I could see that.

Michele:

The front office, I love resorts. I love the front desk. It's like the heartbeat of the hotel, and I just learned everything. And so I literally I have a button somewhere that I should show you, but it's got the little Mickey detective and it says I'm on the inside track. So I literally taught what you now do in digital guides. I taught as a concierge to guests. We would literally invite them in to a lounge at the Grand Floridian, and we have slideshow and it said, get on the inside track. That's awesome.

Michele:

The number one tip that we always gave, and now I'm gonna ask you if this still holds, was to go left. When everybody else goes right, always go left. Always look for 2 lines at the checkout. Does that still hold? I mean, I always do it still.

Ali:

Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, it's kinda broad, but I would agree. That's one of the general tips we give people, especially in crowds. Like, people do funny things in crowds. People just do what everyone is doing. So it's like maybe if you have options, you need to figure out the one that's not there, right? You don't always have an option. Like, there's gonna be 1 standby queue and you have to wait or whatever, you know? But you said a kiosk, like, when people are paying for food, and people are just lazy.

Ali:

People don't wanna walk. People don't like moving. I was like, go to the furthest turnstile even if it means you're gonna have to walk the 20 feet back over. Like, who cares? And your aunt just got you new Fitbit for Christmas or whatever. Just, like, go get your 20 subs and go. It's gonna be more efficient. Yeah. So okay.

Ali:

Your favorite part's Hollywood. Mine's Epcot. Yeah. If I could only have 1 park, when I sit at home like, we all sit at home and daydream about if we're not local, like, oh, I wish I could do this tonight. Mine is always, I wish I could be at Epcot.

Michele:

Have you seen the new nighttime show yet?

Ali:

No. I haven't.

Michele:

I haven't either. Next week, I'll let you know. K.

Ali:

Yeah. I'm not going back till March. We take our biggest break from Christmas. Usually, I'm there in January, but it's been so freaking cold. Last year, we had a great January, but I don't do well with the cold.

Michele:

See, I won't go during the summer. I take from, like, April, May, right after Flower and Garden, I go for 1 weekend, and then I don't go again until food and wine.

Ali:

Yeah. I have to usually go in July for food and wine. It just gets a little harder every year on this aging bond.

Michele:

Yeah. Every year, it gets a little hotter, too.

Ali:

I know. And I used to do so well with the heat, but that Orlando ones, you're like, Man, starting to push 40 now and it's like, uh-huh, No. She's such a child. Yeah. I'm kidding. Most of

Michele:

my listeners are right there in your age.

Ali:

Tell that to my cervical spine, Michele.

Michele:

Okay. So favorite attraction?

Ali:

Oh, gosh. So, really, like, again, if I could ride 1, it's Cosmic Rewind. It's Guardians of the Galaxy because it's so good. But, like, there's no nostalgia there. Right?

Michele:

Oh, Guardians is my favorite.

Ali:

So I feel like Disney, you always get, like, a nostalgia answer for favorites. Like, there's gotta be 2. And one's gotta be nostalgia because I'm like Slash Mountain was my favorite. RIP. It's fine. Space Mountain, Big Thunder. Like, I love the classics.

Michele:

I just did a podcast interview with the 2 gentlemen from Drafting the Magic, which is another podcast, a Disney podcast, which is really fun. And we all 3 think that Space Mountain might just be an overrated attraction at the kingdom. But they are also on the West Coast. They're from Disneyland where it's a much better attraction. So there's that. But okay. You mentioned hacks for Peter Pan. So Fantasyland is always my biggest, like, boondoggle because it's always where I want to spend more time, but I refuse to because it's just there's nowhere to move.

Ali:

Yeah. Because it's a shit show most of the day?

Michele:

Yeah. So plan my Fantasyland for me, babe.

Ali:

So Fantasyland is like you either go in the morning early and you get out, like, GTFO by 11, or you go in the evening. It's really nice in the evening. I think people just think it's, like, mid day, and that definitely works. And it's a good plan if you have younger children because age differences really matter when it comes to an itinerary. But for, like, you that's going without young, young kids, I would say go in the evening because there's this thing with, like, lightning lane return times. Unless it's super popular, it's really busy, etcetera, all these things that can make a lightning lane truly sell out for the day, a lot of rides, especially in Fantasyland that are like we call them smaller rides, right, not as high demand, there's like this bell curve of return times for them. So let's say it's Winnie the Pooh can sometimes be one of the rides that isn't high demand.

Michele:

One of my faves.

Ali:

It's so good. But the lightning lane at busy times and even modern times will actually be pretty far out. So it could be like 1 in the afternoon and the lightning lane's 3 or 4, and you're like, well, I don't wanna wait till then. But if you wait until later in that bell curve, right, that other side starts falling, the lightning lane return times are actually gonna, like, come up sooner. And standby is gonna decrease as well because they usually work hand in hand. So if you can wait until, like, Fantasyland in the evening and then it's like, oh, it's like 5:30 and I have Genie plus and Under the Seas available right now, And then, oh, Winnie the Pooh is now an hour return time, not a 3 hour return time. It's just a lot easier in the evening if you can swing it. And I think it's still probably the most beautiful place in all Disney world, at place in all Disney world at night, right?

Michele:

I agree. The twinkly lights are magical.

Ali:

Yeah, totally. So evening, otherwise, like early entry. We did some tests, and I personally did it. I think it was last April or something. I don't know. I know I flew in a day early to do this by myself. I got up, did early entry, which I wanna do on, like, normal vacations, but we were, like, doing a test day. And I did mostly Fantasyland, a little bit of Tomorrowland, but I did almost every attraction in Fantasyland with less than a 9, 8, 7.

Ali:

It was, like, less than 10 minute average. Oh. 10 rides all completed by noon. And that included, like, Enchanted Tales with Belle, which is, you know, 20, 30 minute name. So early, early works too. But I tell people, I'm like, it always depends on crowd levels. Like, every question people give me, I'm like, cool. What day are you going? Because I need to know how crowded it is.

Ali:

That's the biggest variable when it comes to strategies, times, anything.

Michele:

So is there any time anymore where it's actually not crowded?

Ali:

Yeah. I mean, September is still pretty slow, especially, like, the week after Labor Day. I took my mom. Flight of passage was posted 20 minutes for, like, 3 hours.

Michele:

That's nice.

Ali:

And it was walk on. It wasn't even 20 minutes. Like, you just had to walk to where you're boarding. So, yeah, there's definitely some times in September. Usually, it's a little slower. Some weeks, October, November, December, it's just like 1 week out of each month. You gotta find the slow pocket.

Michele:

My favorite time of the year to go.

Ali:

Yeah. For sure. November is the best. Like, I took my husband in November, and it was moderately crowded, but it wasn't even that bad. And, like, it was so nice. We got to do whatever he wanted. I mean, Magic Kingdom, we finished at 4 o'clock, and we got there at 10. I was like, well, what do I do now?

Michele:

That's fabulous. That's amazing.

Ali:

Yeah. Because it was that slow that day, and it was a party day.

Michele:

Just curious because we talked about not everybody has it to do Genie plus every time. Is that with the Genie plus where you were able to really just knock it out like that?

Ali:

When I take people in almost every Magic Kingdom, yeah, I'm using Genie plus, same with Hollywood Studios. Epcot and Animal Kingdom, not always. Those are the parks where if I'm not using Genie, I'm probably mostly at Epcot or Animal Kingdom. Magic Kingdom, almost always. But even some party days, it really just depends. You know, if you can go early, stay late, and it's not super crowded at Magic Kingdom, you can get away with it. It's just it was convenient, and I didn't care about the money that day.

Michele:

That has been my advice as well to my clients. So Epcot and Animal Kingdom, again, this is without littles, so you don't care if there's a 3 hour line at Frozen. And here is my ultimate question. So you said Magic Kingdom evening. Do I still need to wake up at 0 dark 30 at 7 AM and buy my individual lightning lane for 7 dwarves mind train?

Ali:

7 dwarves

Michele:

because, a, that's my favorite attraction at the Magic Kingdom. A day in Phantasy is not complete unless I have ridden that.

Ali:

Yeah. That thing needs to go into regular Genie, ma'am.

Michele:

I'm fine. I'll buy it because I just will.

Ali:

I know, but the rest of us don't want to.

Michele:

I know. But, see, I would rather actually even buy individual Lightning Lanes for the things I really wanna do and skip Genie plus.

Ali:

Okay. Yeah. Like, just a la carte everywhere. Is it Paris? Disneyland Paris that does that, I think? Yes.

Michele:

Which is the old Disneyland model where we had a, b, c, d, and e attractions.

Ali:

Yes. Yes. Eticket and all that.

Michele:

Right. That's how it used to be. I know people are like, but I don't wanna have to pay for attraction. I'm like, that's how it all started. You paid for attraction. I mean, I don't like to look at how much I'm paying for a 4 minute attraction, but still, time is money, people. Time is money. It is.

Ali:

Okay. So, again, what's the crowd level? Is it Christmas day? Yeah. You gotta get your butt up at 7 AM and buy it. Is it most days that aren't a major school holiday? You got a little bit of leeway, potentially a ton of leeway depending on what the attraction is. Are you trying to book Slinky Dog? Then you're gonna have to get up regardless of the crowds by a certain time.

Michele:

Right.

Ali:

Do you want to get an individual lightning lane for rise or resistance on New Year's Day? You're gonna have to get up early. But it just depends. You know, that's why we have those, like, flowchunks. Have you ever seen that in our guides? Because there's so many scenarios, and I'm like, okay. I'm gonna have to make, like, a choose your own adventure type thing because so much goes into it. But I think crowd's the biggest thing. I have noticed that as long as it's not packed, people have a little more time than you think. But, again, if it's your big vacation and this is like your one shot, I'm probably gonna be setting my alarm because I don't wanna miss out.

Ali:

You know? It stinks. I just feel bad for the people like myself that can't fall back asleep. I cannot get up, get that rush of adrenaline slash panic attack anxiety.

Michele:

Did I get in the virtual queue?

Ali:

Right? I mean, I don't care anymore. I do this for a living, but, man, as an anxious person that is, like, not even caring about this, I have to realize this is a 100 times anxiety, cardiac arrest, carotid block anxiety level for virtual queues and the 7 AM drop. I would be even more anxious if I was going. It's my big trip, and I was thinking maybe I shouldn't participate in that just to wake up and find that something was gone. There's a few people that do data. Like, we have stuff now who used to run mouse metrics, and she does our Instagram, which she'll do stuffs like these are the virtual queue sellout times. And anybody can get on ThrillData, which is open source data, which is what we use for almost everything. But you can see what's been going on at the crowd level before your times.

Ali:

That's a lot more work than most people wanna do. But

Michele:

Right. Yeah. No. This is still supposed to be a vacation. I mean and that's why my clients pay me so that I do the research for them, which, like, all of this stuff, well, I have you, so I read your stuff. But even me, I don't wanna go on thorough data.

Ali:

For sure. Most people don't.

Michele:

I mean, I'm going to get information to be a better travel adviser for my clients, but I still want it to feel like a vacation.

Ali:

Yeah. Well, people ask me, like, I'm going to Disney. Like, what do I do? Because, of course, I have friends and family that ask me all the time, and they think I, like, can teleport and lead VIP tours in the parks. I don't know. But they're like, can you help me? And I'm like, well, not really, but I can send you to somebody to help you.

Michele:

Well, that's how I became a travel adviser because when you're a cast member 20, 30 years ago, it doesn't matter. That's all anybody wants to talk to you about. Like, well, can you plan my trip? And finally, I was like,

Ali:

But, yeah, like, the one thing that people don't do for Disney trips, which is a deepened amount of people that makes me wanna pound my head against the freaking wall more than anything is when people are like, I'm not using a travel agent or they don't. And I'm like, cool. Your life would be a 1000 times easier. I have told people, you have no business going to Disney World, actually, right now because it's that complicated, unfortunately. I'm not saying I like it. I do not think her and Disney is okay. But when people wanna go, they're like, what do I need to do? I'm like, you need to use travel agent.

Michele:

Yeah. Same.

Ali:

And if you don't, I don't even wanna talk to you because, like, you're not above that. It's free. Nothing's free. Come on. Use an expert.

Michele:

Well, I will say I'm not free, but there are people who are free.

Ali:

Well, planning fees too. It's like that's what people really should be charging because I know the commissions Disney gets compared to other vacations, and I would be too.

Michele:

Right. I do charge a planning fee. They're all over the place, planning fees. So you can quote unquote shop that. Not that, again, I would recommend it. The reason I charge a planning fee is very simple, is because I have an annual pass and I, like you mentioned, you go often. I go often. I pay for my annual pass.

Michele:

Disney does not give it to me. I pay the same rates as everyone else to stay on-site and do the things. I have to pay for my own flights. I don't live there. So all of that knowledge that I then can give to my client is why I charge a fee to offset that learning and education and, you know, my membership and Wish Upon A Planner.

Ali:

I know. But yeah. And you're running a business. I mean, people say that to us. Like, people you know, we run ads, and nobody likes ads. Right? But we run ads, and people comment, and they're like, I can get this for free off YouTube. I'm like, you can, but is it wrong? Is it out of date? Is it, like, worth do you really wanna watch 40 hours of YouTube? Some people do, and that's really fun for them. But I don't think people understand.

Ali:

But I've always told TAs, like travel agents, charge a fee, And people are happy to pay that on top of their big vacation. I mean, I pay one of my friends, she charges a fee, and I have paid her to book dining reservations for me. I've given her $150 to book me, like, a week's worth of dining reservations that she did in one day. And I'm like, yeah, that's cheap to me to guarantee that you're gonna give me all these reservations and I don't have to do anything or wake up early.

Michele:

Yeah. I actually have a fellow travel advisor, which this is the ultimate compliment to me who drives down. And so she hired me to get on and do some of her stuff that she wouldn't be able to do while she was in the car driving. So yeah, we all help each other out. But, yes, it's not free for all of us.

Ali:

Yeah. But people need to use travel advisers. Well, thank

Michele:

you for that endorsement. Just so everyone knows, she and I did not talk about this before we got online. As you can tell, this conversation was not planned at all. It was just like, hey. Let's chitchat.

Ali:

Oh, no. Well, and it's right after Christmas. So every year at Christmas, I go back to Kentucky for the holidays, and I probably at least half a dozen, if not more, people ask me about Disney and what they should do and what my advice is. And I'm like, I'll give you my planning guide and then you need to talk to a travel agent. And here's a list. And don't not do this because your life will be a 100 times harder.

Michele:

Well, you are spending so much money to go. Why not get the most out of it that you possibly can?

Ali:

Yeah. And Disney's just it's not the beach, and everybody knows that. Like, everybody knows it's hard. Everybody has coworker at the water cooler. Somebody tell them, like, how Disney's difficult. You hear about FastPass. I joke that Disney is the 2nd biggest cult in America. I won't say that personally.

Ali:

But I'm like, it's everywhere all the time. Everybody knows that Disney is complicated. Right? And if you don't wanna do a little bit of work, like, you know you gotta do a little bit. Even if it's 2 hours of, like, just condensed information with your travel agent or a guidebook or something, binge watching YouTubes for an evening, just do something to help yourself Or you're gonna be in the dark and you're kinda lighting your money on fire, in my opinion. There are some people that are like, We wouldn't. We didn't plan anything. We had a great time. And I'm like, I call bullshit, but okay.

Michele:

Or they don't know how much better it would have been, how much more value they would have gotten. Like, I always tell people, please do not go in and start your day at the Magic Kingdom. Like, okay, this day cost me x amount and try and figure out what you are paying to go on every single attraction because you will hate yourself. Just don't think about what the cost per ride is or show or whatever. And so people who don't plan in advance or don't contact someone like you or me who knows better, then they're paying more per attraction than you would have to if you prepared better for your vacation.

Ali:

Yeah. I mean, as long as people do what they wanna do and they don't know any different otherwise, that's fine. But I don't think that's the majority of people. I think the majority of people that do fail to plan anything, they are disappointed and they never go back to Disney again, or they feel like they wasted their money or they just got, like, an upset kid or someone. And I'm like, that's a bummer. Like, we gotta try to avoid that stuff.

Michele:

Right. Which is why both of our businesses exist. So it's job security. So really quickly because I know we're pushing time, let's head up by 4 a little bit and let's just talk about what is going to be the Epic Universe. Well, universal in general. So I know what my answer would be, but let me ask you, easier or harder to plan than a trip to the mouse?

Ali:

That's tough because universal is not that easy. I don't think it is. Well, if you can express past, then that's easy.

Michele:

You're talking to the bougie AF girl here.

Ali:

I can see Express Pass in your eyes. Yeah. Express Pass for sure.

Michele:

I've never been to Universal without either doing a VIP shared group experience or Express Pass. So yes.

Ali:

Yeah. Total booj.

Michele:

I am total.

Ali:

Yeah. I mean, Express Pass, for sure, you got no worries, and it's way easier, the Disney World. You can just walk in for the most part. I mean, if you don't, that's different because Universal's got some puzzles. Like Islands of Adventure, Standby Only, that is a puzzle. I'm like smiling because it's a lot of fun. I took years, years of research, work, testing my legs, everything, physical, mental, computer, probably a year off my life of trying to figure out the perfect strategy for, like, Islands of Venture.

Michele:

Just tell us one thing that we don't know.

Ali:

I mean, the easiest way for Islands of Adventure is be at the front of park at park opening if you can, because a lot of people are doing the early park admission for Harry Potter. But if you can get to the front of the park, close the park opening, and then start doing those attractions from the left and going clockwise, you're pretty much golden without Express Pass. You just gotta worry about, like, Hagrid's and VelociCoaster, which those are big loops if you don't have well, Hagrid's doesn't have Express Pass. VelociCoaster is now.

Michele:

Okay. So does single rider help with Hagrid's? I've had the person in the front tell me we don't know how long the wait is for single rider, and it may or may not make a difference.

Ali:

The few times we've done single rider, it's typically 20 to 30 minutes when it's, like, a 60 to 75 minute line. That's awesome. It is. But a lot of times, they actually I don't know if they're doing it as much anymore, but they shut down the single rider line

Michele:

Yeah. They do.

Ali:

A decent amount because it gets full, and they're not gonna let it go up to that. They're always gonna give, like, the CYA what if you're, like, single mom with 4 kids? That's not gonna work. Oh, like, come on. But there's a decent amount of, like, single rider lines at Universal, like Rip Ride Rock, it helps, VelociCoaster, Hagrid's, all that for sure. So it has single rider and Express Pass help a ton if you could do that. Yeah. Express Pass is like, no worries at Universal. You're good.

Michele:

Okay. There we go.

Ali:

Oh, for sure. And Epic Universe, I'm sure it's gonna be pretty similar. I'm sure most attractions will have Express Pass.

Michele:

I haven't gotten to talk about this on my pod a lot just because well, Abe, it's still just January, but we haven't really slotted it in. But I did get to go to Universal Hollywood and ride Donkey Kong or whatever the real name is, and I did have to wait in line. I did not have express pass that day. They said the wait was gonna be a 120 minutes. It was closer to 90 ish. Yeah. And I couldn't believe I was winning in line that long, but I have to say there is so much to look at that it was fine. I mean, I was posting on Instagram or whatever, so I felt like I was working in line, but it was so cute and it got me so pumped for Epic Universe.

Michele:

Like, I'm so excited.

Ali:

That's cool. I don't know anything. I mean, I know a little about Epic Universe, but we're probably not gonna cover it. One of my employees is really trying to convince me that we should cover it and she should be the one that covers it. But people don't understand that the starter guide is like tens of 1,000 of dollars a year that it costs to go into it as far as labor, cost of goods sold, all this stuff.

Michele:

And research.

Ali:

Yeah. Everything. It just costs tens of 1,000 of dollars to maintain a guide that's accurate. Yeah. I'm sure there's, like, little cutesy guides on the Internet of, like, momfluencers where it's like, here's my tips from my 1 or 2 vacations.

Michele:

I hate that. Oh my god. Just because you have taken your family and you had a great time does not mean you can plan for anybody else's family that is a different size or has different meal appetites. I have one client right now who's like, but I've talked to my friends who have gone several times. And I'm like, then why did you hire for me?

Ali:

Do you want my knowledge or do you not? Disney really brings out, like, the know it all part of the ego in people. There's people that have never been, and, like, sorry to my cousin, but she went a few years ago, and this this was, like, when there was regular free Fastpass. And she was like, what should I book for Epcot? And I was like, well, we should book this. We should book this. And she's like, well, my kids really wanna do, like, The Seas with Nemo. And I'm like, that's great. You can book it after your other fast passes because it will be there for you all day long. And she sent me a screenshot of her 3 fast passes she, like, free booked, you know? And it was like, The Seas with Nemo.

Ali:

And I was like, Cool. Like, instead of Frozen. She's like, Well, I think we wanna do it at night. I was like, Cool. Do whatever you want. Exactly. I'm like, do whatever you want. I don't care.

Ali:

I think people think I love to like especially personal friends, family. It's like you love to talk to Zayn. It's like, I I probably did when I wasn't running a business. But now I'm running a business. This is, like, a thing for me. So it's like, I really do wanna help you. It's kinda all or nothing. There's no such thing as a couple tips for Disney.

Ali:

It's like, here's the entire system you need. You can't just be like, oh, yeah. Here's my tip. Eat a Mickey bar and watch the fireworks. Like, that's not what's going on these days.

Michele:

I totally interrupted you because that's just like my soapbox. Like, the mom people who gone twice and all of a sudden, they're travel advisers. I'm like, yeah, no. But okay. I don't even remember what you were gonna say because I was like, that's my pain point, obviously.

Ali:

For sure. Like, we have it as content creators and we get tons of copycats and all this stuff and blah blah blah because we've been around for a long time, and, like, we know what we're doing. And then the travel agents don't know what they're doing. It's the same frustration you guys hear of travel agents that are like, oh, you know, my agent told me just something that's completely wrong, and you're just like,

Michele:

Well and so I'm always like, hey, did they tell you wrong or did you hear it wrong?

Ali:

That's true.

Michele:

But, yes, I think there are a lot of especially Disney, and I think that's because so I was an event planner. I had a whole other career. We talked about how we get bored easily with stuff. So this is my 4th career now, but I was a wedding planner for a lot of years and the same thing. Like, every senior in college who, you know, was a bridesmaid and therefore planned her best friend's bachelorette party suddenly was like, I can be a wedding planner. I know what I'm doing. And it's like, no. You know how to plan that 1 wedding and have those food and those flowers at that venue.

Michele:

And you can always tell the newbies because they were the ones that were running around in high heels. We have a system and we know what we're doing, and that includes wearing your box during the day while you're doing setup. But it was the same thing. It's just a low cost of entry because there's no certification program to be an event planner. You can sign up to get educated. And it's the same thing with Disney. Anybody can take their college of Disney knowledge and then hang out a shingle and say, hi. I can book your trip to Disney.

Michele:

And a lot of travel advisors do bill themselves as my services are free. So why shouldn't you use me? And I'm like, well, when you go to get your haircut, do you go to the school where you can get it for free? Or do you go to the person who's been studying and accredited and licensed has been doing this for more than a minute? And then people are like, oh, yeah. I don't wanna get my haircut for free. Like, of course not. And it's the same thing with content.

Ali:

Totally. Yeah. And, I mean, everybody's gotta start somewhere. Right? Like, there's always beginners. Absolutely. It's just like 9 out of 10 people probably don't ultimately care, and I think that's what frustrates the people that do. It's like we put in the time and it's like I make it a big point to always help, like, anybody that comes to me, newbies or this or that. Like, I've definitely mentored a lot of people and stuff like that, hired people, you know, that I've mentored that decide they don't wanna ultimately do Disney stuff.

Ali:

And Disney's hard, but I think there's also just, like, the attention economy where it's like people think that I'm gonna do stuff for a few weeks or months or whatever, and then if it's not going well, like, it didn't go well. And I'm like, that's not true. And it's more just like, how much do you care about people? Because it's like, you're trying to make a bunch of money. Like, we are constantly like you. We're reinvesting our profits into our business. I'm not sitting here with, like, a freaking nice house or anything. I'm not, like, flying 1st class to Disney. Like, our customers are always first.

Ali:

Like, that has always been, like, the cornerstone of our business. And I almost don't like to say it because it sounds so cliche, but, like, it's true. And other people are like, how do you keep business going? So, like, you're in your 7th year. And I'm like, I do the right thing for my customers, and I don't overcharge people. Like, People all the time are like, this is a whole system. Like, you're keeping people out of line. You used to be charging at least 100 or $200 if people are paying $200 for Memory Maker and people are paying 3, $500 travel agent fees. Then I'm like, Yeah, but, A, it's a guide.

Ali:

Yeah, it's a system and it could be a lot more money. But I'm just like, I make what I wanna make. And then from there, I need to make the changes I need to. But, like, yeah, it does drive me nuts, though, with, like, the content creators that are just like, I'm gonna go on a trip, and I'm gonna exploit everything about it and try to monetize it so I can make more money to go to Disney again. It's like everything's so biased with them or what they're doing, and it's not good advice. And there's been a lot of people like, I don't see this all the time. I just definitely see it a handful of times out there when I do pay attention, and I'm just like, okay.

Michele:

It gets really hard for me. I have to sometimes just check out of social or stop following people so that I don't see it as much.

Ali:

Social media is the antichrist. There really is.

Michele:

Right? It's the thing we love to hate. Kinda like Genie plus. I love to hate it.

Ali:

Yeah. I don't know. I'm not even on social media personally. So

Michele:

You have someone that does yours. See, I told you guys when we first started this conversation, like, I wanna be Ally when I grow up. She has someone who does our social media. Yeah. That's ears in. Right? I feel so much better knowing that you've been at this so much longer than I thought Because next month will be 4 years of making memories travel, and I really did think that you started around the same time that I did. But that would make sense that I thought that because that's probably when I went out looking for stuff. Yeah.

Michele:

So knowing that you've been at this longer, I'm like, oh, okay. I still have a few more years to get up to the top.

Ali:

For sure. No. This is year 7, and, I mean, 4 years is a long time. Congratulations. That's awesome.

Michele:

Thank you. Well, considering that 2

Ali:

of them were in a pandemic, yes, it has been a long time. I know. Yeah. Definitely, like, felt a huge shift, I would say, like, year 6, actually. Wow. Last year was when I finally was like, okay. Like, I pretty much got it 98% together. I would say at any given year before that, it was 50% or below.

Ali:

Oh. So, I mean, I went from, like, I felt like at 50% or below had it together to, like, 98%, and it probably didn't happen to your 6, to be, like, completely transparent, just because I'm a pretty organized person. But just like everybody else, one day you feel like working a lot, and then the next day you're like, I'm tired.

Michele:

Yes. I get the I'm tired a lot.

Ali:

Yeah. We're all tired. Welcome to, like, hyper capitalism.

Michele:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So I have so many more questions. You have to come back on a future podcast, promise me.

Ali:

I would love to.

Michele:

But final question, when's your next trip?

Ali:

Next trip is in March. Probably later in March, it's looking like.

Michele:

I'm, like, looking at my calendar going, can I go at the same time that Abby's gonna be there? Okay. You have to let me know. I don't have a March trip planned.

Ali:

I know. We used to do meetups and stuff, and I kinda wanna do one. Like, I've been wanting to do one, then I'm also like, nobody comes.

Michele:

And I can speak from experience. I am not one to organize that right now because I am super hyped, busy planning my section city, quote, unquote, meet up in Greece.

Ali:

Okay. That was my question for you because I was like, you're awesome. And as soon as you ask me to be on your podcast, I go to your website, and it's like Sex and the City cruise, which I told you right before, like, Sex in the City is a major part of my life. Not as much anymore because it's older, and I'm definitely not including And Just Like That as that. Like, I'm talking The Real Sex and the City.

Michele:

I get it.

Ali:

Yeah. I'm like, we don't have to talk And Just Like That. But yeah. I mean, it's like, you remember, like, the pink velvet seasons of Sex and the City? Did you have that? Like, the DVDs?

Michele:

I do. I still have it. It is upstairs in my, like, media room.

Ali:

Yeah. If I had to my mom's house.

Michele:

I would not have even remembered that I have that because who watches DVDs anymore? But but,

Ali:

yeah, the Pink Crush Velvet, Sex and the City, all the DVDs, but I used to watch it once a year.

Michele:

Oh my god. It's so pretty, and it's got, like, the layout of every episode and the pictures. Yep. I should totally be using that right now. Pop in a DVD? Yes.

Ali:

Okay. Are you Aiden or Big? Team Big all the way. Really? Yes. That is what everybody says. I'm shocked.

Michele:

That is so funny that you asked me that because when I went on my last virgin voyage to get content, I was invited to come on to get content and videos of the ship and everything to market the trip that's coming up in June. I went around and I asked like all the crew, team 8 and team big, and everyone to a person was team big.

Ali:

I don't understand it.

Michele:

I don't know team Aiden people.

Ali:

I am.

Michele:

You're my first. What? Why?

Ali:

Because he's so sweet and he's such a good person and big is not. He's just chauvinistic.

Michele:

Okay. I am gonna give you that. Yes. Especially if you do a rewatch, like Big's character does not hold up at all. No. But I absolutely will never forget Aiden for saying, I will forgive you. I will be there with you. And then basically punishing her.

Michele:

Like, I just can't get over that. I'm like, dude, grow up. Yeah. She made a mistake.

Ali:

So a lot of men are douchebags. Is that bottom line?

Michele:

I'm like, if you don't want her in your life, cool. She made a mistake. She's owned it. But if you do, then, like, start fresh. Okay. I will only admit this to you. So this is between us. I loved Burger.

Michele:

I really thought that the 2 of them could have been something, and that is the question that I'm most looking forward to asking Cindy Shupak about when she's on the cruise is why could that never have been a thing?

Ali:

Yeah. Is she the writer?

Michele:

She was an executive producer and writer. One of my favorite episodes. So, yeah, I'm super pumped.

Ali:

Oh, that is so cool. I wanna go so bad. That was a great season with Berger. There's a lot of good music that season.

Michele:

I will make fun of that Post it note forever.

Ali:

Yeah. It's Sex in the City. You can imagine if it was now. So, yeah, I'm still team 8 of them. Alright. I'll stay in my little corner by myself.

Michele:

No. See, this is why we need more people like you to come on board so that we can hash it out on board the cruise. That information, as always, will be in the show notes, but also all of Ali's contact information will be too. You already told us your website. Is there anywhere else that you would like us to connect to you?

Ali:

I wish it was on the Sex and the City cruise. I'm not gonna promote it myself, but everybody who loves Sex and the City needs to go on this cruise. Michele is having a Sex in the City cruise with people who were behind Sex in the City.

Michele:

You're so sweet.

Ali:

It is a vacation about Sex in the City with professional Sex in the City real people. Thank you. It is so cool. I want to go. The only reason I'm not is because I'm likely having a medical procedure then or right before then, so I can't go. Otherwise, I was gonna book that trip. I am so jealous, though.

Michele:

We understand. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna come and haunt you on your next trip to Disney. So you have to promise me to tell me when it is. I will be the person who does the meetup with you.

Ali:

Yes. We should do, like, a Sex and the City Epcot theme weird something sometime.

Michele:

Okay. Well, Cindy Schupack will not come because she told me in an email. I don't understand. They seem like 2 different audiences too. Yeah. Sorry.

Ali:

I get what you're saying, and I think it's funny.

Michele:

I do too. But, I mean, clearly, we are the same universe. There's some overlap there.

Ali:

There is. We're in our own little pocket.

Michele:

Ali, this has been so much fun.

Ali:

So much fun. You're so wonderful.

Michele:

I love you too, and I really can't wait to have you back.

Ali:

Yes. You're amazing.

Michele:

So until then, everyone, see you real soon.